SPEAKER_02 0:00

We've got two guys with uh six titles between them. We've actually got three type guys with six titles between them.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

I just sat down 'cause you'd just been told to sit down there.

SPEAKER_03 0:09

You see the difference between us and the high-end eye, we had to do something about it, and that's what we've ultimately tried to do over winter. I think it's quite clear it's been an improvement, it's a step forward for us, and we're getting a result from it. I can throw in a result every now and again, so with obviously a couple of wins and four podiums. On that note, we nearly got two shirts from Made saying who the hell is Mikey Dowalk.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

I mean, these guys probably didn't even know I was on the grid until that point. There'll always be an element of you make a competition out of it and everyone wants to win irrelevant to whether it's an egg and spoon race or you know who's gonna press the button first at the elevator. That's just generally in our nature of uh of sports people.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

What's it feel like racing against the guys that you've looked up to? I kept saying to myself, they're just names on windows, they're just human beings.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

There wasn't really a lot of expectation in driving that car at the time. It was getting a lot of stick for being the oldest car on the grid, like it might be invited to Goodwood soon and that type of thing.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

Revival, yeah. Yeah, revival, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 0:59

Are you feeling that pressure now heading towards a potential fifth title? Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the latest BTCC podcast. We're joined again by three different drivers to what we've had before. It's it's reigning champion Tom Ingram. Welcome. Hi, thanks. Uh it's Mikey Doble, race winner this season, and uh four-time champion and current championship leader Ash Sutton. How are we all doing, boys?

SPEAKER_01 1:35

We're doing great. Thanks. I thought I'd I thought I'd jump in there. Um we're doing great, thank you. We've just finished our uh million week summer break, and I think we're back in refresh and ready to go round in circles again.

SPEAKER_05 1:45

It has been quite long, hasn't it? And I know you might think this is boring, but fans will be very interested to know what you guys been up to. Is it are you able to switch off or are you kind of still focusing on beers and barbecues, really, isn't it? It was a lot of that. The weather's been lovely, isn't it? It's it's been ridiculous, hasn't it? Actually outrageous. I think actually we picked quite a good batch of time not to be in a race car, surely. That would have been quite uncomfortable. Rather warm, don't it?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

I mean, it's uh Do you have windows? Do you have wind-down windows in yours?

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Do you have wind-down windows in yours? Funny enough, we were discussing this earlier because you need to have the glass windows to have that, don't you? Because otherwise the perspective ones would just be flapping around.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

I was always really envious of the Hondas. Honda, yeah. They always used to have electric windows. Oh, I remember this, yeah. Yeah, we had it in the Subaru, to be fair. Did you? Yeah. Um and uh when it was warm, you just would watch them on the in-lap or the or the outlap or anything else. It didn't really matter. Just with the window down, with the wind through their hair, having a lovely time, and whilst we're there cooking like an egg, um, I was always very envious of it.

SPEAKER_05 2:46

So there's no sporting benefit to not having windows. Is that just a cross way?

SPEAKER_02 2:51

It depends if the window switch, that's all it does, is put down the windows, eh? Ooh. Controversial suggesting what?

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Wait, where are you going with that one? Finish off.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Do you do yours not do you not change the engine map on your one then?

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Well, not not via the not via the the window switch, no. Nah, you're using the wrong button. Well, you yeah, well if you use the window. Yeah. Just as you're going over the way bridge and that. Controversial, but I quite enjoy it.

SPEAKER_05 3:24

Uh okay, let's talk about the season so far. Uh, we've got two guys with uh six titles between them, but we're gonna start with a man. You've had you got three type guys with six titles between them, but I just didn't contribute in that. That's a good point. That is a good point. But um some may say Mikey Doble. I'm glad you sat down because you've just been told to sit down there. It is only a matter of time. Um and looking back at the start of the season, you won that first race and not only a dream start for the new car, but it has been a great car straight out of the box, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Yeah, I mean I think the car has been quick from the start. I wouldn't say we've really made it any better over the first half of the season. We just kind of ran with what we got, and then the the mid-season break was the first chance we've had to really reset and do we've actually done had a really good couple of days testing over at Pembury, um, which is the first time we've actually been able to try some things with the car and move it forward. But yeah, it's been a promising start to the year. Um would have liked to maybe be a few positions higher up in the championship, but it's certainly better than we've ever done before.

SPEAKER_05 4:26

And I know you're you you look at the overall championship, I know that, but obviously there's other things to win this year. Are you focused on those independence, etc.?

SPEAKER_02 4:35

I try not to think too much about it for the beginning part of the season. Uh, I think as the season starts to take shape, and perhaps the the top three, if that becomes sort of out of my reach of the overall championship, then you might start to shift the strategy on your weekends to try and maximize independent points a little bit more. But we're still quite early in the season, we've only done four rounds. So I think if we're doing well in in the overall championship and we're bringing trophies home, then the chances are we won't be too far away in independence either.

SPEAKER_05 5:04

So and boys, either side, you've obviously both driven title-winning cars, many of them. Do you actually have enough time or interest to look at a team like PowerMax and you see them having designed a new car and and and brought it to the championship? Do you are you impressed by other teams when you see that kind of effort?

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Yeah, I think I'll jump in there first. Ultimately watch what everyone's doing. The start of the season, it's a blank canvas. So you look what everyone's doing, and for sure, PowerMax have done a mega job to bring a new car to the championship, to bring obviously three of them, which is now soon to be four. So yeah, and you look at how they performed out of the box, they're all very strong at uh at Donington. Um same as any car, there's always uh any new car, there's always obviously room for improvement, and as Mikey's touched on, they're they're only going to get better. So it only buds well for the championship and for the fans.

SPEAKER_05 5:52

And touching on your car, I spoke to you in pre-season. I don't know if the word unsure is not maybe the correct word, but you you you were looking at the improvements, but you were kind of like they're very incremental during the testing phase. It's fair to say they it's come alive in that first half of the season. Is there something that you can point to specifically in terms of what you've learnt about this car and how much it's improved from that early test, uh those test days into now?

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Yeah, uh ultimately we it's quite clear from the outside what we're trying to do. Yeah, we we lack we lacked a deficit at the end of the day over the past few seasons, or just purely down to car shape. So you see the difference between us and the high and eye, we had to do something about it, and that's what we've ultimately tried to do over winter. I think it's quite clear it's been an improvement, it's a step forward for us. Um we're still driving the same uh car fundamentally underneath. We haven't changed anything in that respect. We're still using the same tool set to make the thing go quicker. Um, so yeah, I wouldn't say we've moved the goalpost massively, we've just made it a little bit slipper in a straight line, and we're getting a result from it.

SPEAKER_05 6:56

And Tom, proven package, um reigning champion. But you now have the job of chasing this man, which you've done many times before, and vice versa. You seem like you've been chasing each other, which is a weird thing to say. But for the last five or six years, it feels like it's been that way, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Uh yeah. Um obviously for the last couple of years we had uh Jake in the in within the mix of that as well. Um and you know, I think over the last couple of years, I think Ash and I have you know kind of shown that that most seasons, you know, we tend to be at the front and we tend to be the to tend to be the ones that we're that are being chased. And I think the start of the season for us, uh we've just been unfortunately the wrong side of luck a few times, either getting caught up in uh in dramas or car issues. I think that's been our biggest, our biggest weaknesses, unfortunately, a little bit of reliability because the pace is strong. I've got no concerns in terms of you know playing, doesn't feel like the 23 season where we had a deficit to Ash and we always knew that every weekend we were sort of playing catch-up to it. Um it feels this year that we're equally matched. We've unfortunately just had a few car failures. So I've effectively missed a race weekend in terms of that. So unfortunately, I'm already playing catch-up. Um the difficulty is the person you're catching isn't a fool. So you're not going to sometimes he is. Sometimes you don't see me wrong with that. Sometimes we hope that he is more of one. Um but the big swings in points gaps are very, very difficult to achieve. So with uh just shy of 50 odd points, we need in the nicest possible way, Ash to have a little bit of misfortune because we can just we just have to kind of keep plodding on and just keep looking at the at the bigger picture as the uh as the year progresses. But from a car perspective, I feel strong. The car feels fantastic, it feels really good. We've probably like uh probably like Napo and everybody really, you never find a sort of a singular smoking bullet that you go, haha, there's four tenths, five tenths. There's loads of individual little things that can, you know, if you have a very good off-season, you could you could make that, but it never really happens. So you all of the gains, all the time that you find over winter is all in just small little tiny bits. And it's kind of worked for us because it it feels strong. Car feels good, it's kind of doing what I want it to do. Um, we've just unfortunately missed a race weekend effectively.

SPEAKER_05 9:28

And when you look at that points deficit and the points swing, as you mentioned, do you sometimes not that you look at the other guys and hope that they step up as such, but I guess other seasons where it's a four or five horse race and other people are taking points off Ash, I guess you need help from others as well as yourself, don't you? Because you can't finish first and second.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

No, yeah. I think you're right. I think that there's there's always an element of um of being aware of who your competitors are um and trying to race against them on the right day. And we've seen that over the certainly over the over the last couple of years since we've uh since we've moved away from uh moved away from the weight into into um hybrid and into this this uh booster, that you can be a lot more consistent over the course of the year. You don't get those big swings in um race positions and qualifying down in 18th and 19th like we used to when we had a church, a church roof in the passenger seat. Now it's much more of a case of fast consistency. Um and we've seen it over the over the over certainly over last year and the year before that uh Ash and I will be very equally matched. Um but the the the uh the delta to third is only a little bit and the delta to the fourth. So it's tough to um it's tough to sort of outscore big, uh and you're absolutely right, you then need other people to try and slot in. But whilst they're slotting in, they're taking points away from me or they're taking points away from Ash, however you see it, um, that sometimes you don't you don't you don't really want them in the way. You just kind of want to you want to do your own thing as well.

SPEAKER_05 11:01

And Mikey, oh sorry, Mikey, um talking about the titles, uh you are a very modest chap, but I have genuinely heard many people talk about you and the way you've grown in this championship. I know you want to be a champion. You believe that that's something that's possible in your um foreseeable future?

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Oh yeah, I mean I think that's why we're all here to go racing and try and fight for a championship. Um, yes, I mean you're right to say that I've grown into the championship and kind of got more confident as a driver, but I think it'd be wrong to say that the performance from when I started the championship back in 2023 to where I am now is all down to me. I don't think I'm that much of a different driver now to what I was when I came in. I think that the team has grown a lot with me and being PMR's longest-serving driver of I'm in my fourth season now. I mean, no one before has done more than two seasons with that team. So, you know, where where we picked up with them back in 2023, they'd come off probably the back of one of their weakest seasons in in their time in the championship, really. And there wasn't really a lot of expectation in driving that car at the time. It was getting a lot of stick for being you know the oldest car on the grid, like it might be invited to Goodwood soon and that type of thing. Um, and I think the revival, yeah. Yeah, the revival, yeah, yeah. It's too new for the members' meeting, um, so too old. Um, but but yeah, like being in that car and just sticking with it and the continuity. Um, we developed the car to a point where it was competitive again. And I think that if you'd have picked up last year's Box or Astra and maybe re-round the clock five, six years, it probably would have been a championship contending car. But unfortunately, the cars had just moved on that to that next level and kind of left that car in the dust a little bit. So, and then obviously we've come out this year with a a brand new car which is quick and has shown a lot of potential. I think we can make it a lot quicker, and hopefully from this point onwards we will be. But you know, we've just it's been a whole team package. I think it'd be doing myself a little bit of disservice to say that the reason I was running down towards the back when I started was all because of me, because we have grown as a team and the cars have got better as well.

SPEAKER_05 13:17

No, but I'm I'm gonna ask the the other two the same thing. But I think you're right, the the car and the team and the packages improved, but your talent was fairly evident straight away. Did you feel like an immediate part of the championship, or has there been a moment over the last couple of seasons where you feel like I'm I'm here to stay and I belong at the sharp end?

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yeah, no, it's a good question. I think for me, being a club racer really, before I did British touring cars, there's an element of like imposter syndrome when you first come into the championship. And I think when I first started, it's the championship I've always wanted to race in, like it was always a childhood dream. And then suddenly when you're here, it's like bang, it's like you're thrown into the deep end, like sink or swim. And there's it's so different and so much more hype around the championship than anything else in probably European motorsport. There was quite a lot to take in, and you know that you know full well that there's thousands of licence holders in the UK that are seeing me jump from a similar sort of level of racing to them into the British Touring Car Championship and watching me race on IT V4, and you know that they want my seat as well. So there's quite a lot of pressure to fit in and show that you belong in the championship. And I think I always felt like I, you know, I can hold my own in this championship, but as is anything, time will tell. And then I think when you get the moments like the big one for me was the pole position back at Silverstone in 23. We managed to put something else on the front row other than a blue and yellow Ford. Um, was probably a bit of an eye-opener to the rest of the paddock that you know, maybe you know, I can throw in a result every now and again, and then from there we've had plenty of other moments with obviously a couple of wins and four podiums and a few other nice things. Well no, no, we nearly got t-shirts from Age saying who the hell is Mark Dow? I mean, these guys probably didn't even know I was on the grid until that point. They've got like a fan had hijacked one of the cars and gone out and put it on pole.

SPEAKER_05 15:14

So and in terms of this side of the game as well, I'm sure both the TV, fans, media side, that was all completely new for you as well, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, it's just like as I said, there's nothing that can prepare you for British touring cars. And yeah, whilst I achieved as much as I could achieve in the previous formulas I was in in the in the Janetta GT5 and the BMW Compact Cup Championship, I felt like to try and bridge that or fill that gap between there and British touring cars wouldn't have necessarily made me any better as a driver. I would have just been even more penniless coming into the championship. So it was like, well, we may as well just if now's the time coming off the back of being a double champion, let's just try and make it happen. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out, but at least we've been on the grid and given it a go, which is obviously you know a massive achievement in itself.

SPEAKER_05 16:06

Absolutely. Um might make the other two feel a bit older. Tom, he's just, I mean, 2012, 13. 2013.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

The the good thing is with you, you come with a bank of knowledge, and I think I think that's the thing that really that's the rot that really separates you amongst from the other sort of the sports media agencies, is your knowledge. No, I started in 2013.

SPEAKER_05 16:25

It was the same year, wasn't it? No. 2012? No. 14.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Even even the doors collapsed because you didn't get that right. It was 14. 2014. Okay. Imposter syndrome. Have you are you feeling it all right?

SPEAKER_05 16:38

Yeah, no, I I I'm I remember in your first season.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Yeah, so that 2014 season was the the year of the seven previous champions.

SPEAKER_05 16:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah, it was the magnificent seven.

SPEAKER_05 16:48

Yeah, that's actually nuts, isn't it? Seven former champions. Could you actually name them like now? Um do you want to do it back to Simon with his knowledge here? Yeah, which way where are we going with this? Uh seven champions. I could probably give it a call. I'll do it. Go on. So he knows everything about this champion.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

It would be actually funny.

SPEAKER_05 17:09

You first uh Jason Plato, Matt Nil, Colin Turkington, Gordon Shedon, Andrew Jordan. Five. You're missing two. Oh, we've I know. Oh, I can't believe you've forgotten the legends. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. Fabrizio Giovanni, Alan Menu. Yeah, nailed it. I think you can give yourself a pat on the back for that. Get in there. Thanks, Mikey. You've stolen my moment there. No, you do want to have a go now. Mikey is the encyclopedia of B2C knowledge, and I do rate that. It is absolutely fantastic. Um, okay, but we are gonna go back to your first season. Okay, yeah, fine. Your first couple of seasons, really. Yeah. What year was that again? 2014. I remember it well.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:53

Um Jason Plato, couple of battles with him. Um Rockingham. See, I do remember. Yeah, what year was that? Oh 15?

SPEAKER_01 18:05

It was 15, yeah. God, I feel like I'm like a quiz master now.

SPEAKER_05 18:09

Was the Jason Plato Silverstone battle as well, towards the end of was that the same season or was it later on?

SPEAKER_01 18:15

I think there was a few, that was uh quite a few years later on, actually. I think that might even have been Corolla days, potentially. Really? Yeah, but I feel like the Rockingham one was a real rival moment. Yeah. And I think Mikey was actually um right with it that you don't feel like you're a different driver, but you massively are. And a lot of it um actually came from I think just you, and you know, Ash will have been exactly the same, actually, just from your own um, it's not even confidence, it's just a little bit of feeling a little bit less in awe of the situation. Um, because I remember turning up to my first driver's briefing in 2014 and sitting there and going, oh my god, why am I Did you get your autograph book out and just I wasn't quite quite that? Just a bit of a phone. Yeah, I think that was that was the first time and only time I've ever seen and have a couple of minutes of time and finishes. Um and actually, you know, you spent that time in the driver's briefing and you were going, oh my god, you sat next to so-and-so, and you sat next to so-and-so, and then you're on the grid. And that for me um was one of those that took a while to sort of get used to. Because at the time, uh I was driving for speed rucks, one car. So I didn't have anyone else to be able to go, what do I do here? Like, how do you do what do you do here? And all the little silly little bits and pieces that take up energy. Like, what do you do for before pit lane walkabout? Where'd you what should where should I go? What should I do? Who do I, all the little bits and pieces that you actually forget about, um, but adds a bit of stress to you as a as a driver. Um, so I had to learn it all on the fly. So I had to, you know, didn't have any bank of data. You spend your tar, you, you know, you spend your first year self-learning how to do everything, how to get the best out of the car, how to get the best out of you, um uh and and and stuff like that. And it probably took that that first season of just going, it felt like such a whirlwind. I remember that my very, very first race weekend, I got to just before race three, and I was sat in the garage and I'm thinking, I'm absolutely broken. I'm absolutely exhausted. Not because from the fitness perspective, because yeah, they're physical cars, but it's more just the emotion of the day, it's more the emotion of the situation, it's more um being stopped there that's never happened before. And I was knackered. I got, and that took quite a while to sort of get used to that, to that level in terms of like energy consumption over the course of the day and make sure you're right. So that 2014 season disappeared in a blur. And I came into that 2015 season suddenly with a little bit more of a, oh, okay, right, I know what to do here. From last year, I did this, this, this, and this. Um, and you just get it is probably a little bit of just confidence that you know what to do, where to go, um, who to speak to, who not to speak. You don't know all those little bits and pieces that you just get used to it over time. And because I was doing it on my own, it just feels like it takes longer to get there.

SPEAKER_05 21:03

And they say it about every sport, it experience it does count massively, as you say, because you then got you have that first battle with a Jason Play-to-then a podium, then a win, and then you've kind of had those seasons where you were challenging for titles but it didn't quite happen, and they all stand you in good stead, presumably, for that first title.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Yeah, yes. I think the um that classic thing of you learn more from your defeats than you do your victories, I think it was was was uh fairly evident with that. And that Jason race was was case in point of that. That up until that race, I'd gone from uh and I've been Mike and and Ash would have been from a similar similar experience as well. That sometimes coming from the support series isn't that great. And now the reason I say that is because you get a little bit of a false sense because you're coming in every weekend and you're winning in a support series, or you if you uh if you left a weekend and you hadn't had a victory, it felt like a disappointment. To have gone from that of three, four years of genetta racing and getting closer and closer and closer to it, to then join the BTCC and go, wanna mate, you finished 12th. You go, oh God, this is horrible. And it takes quite a while to get that confidence back that you that you you start to go into this like circle of self-doubt and you go, ah, I was winning in genetas, I was winning this, and I'm coming into it and I'm like, seventh, eighth. Maybe I'm not quite as good as I I thought I was. And it does take a while. And it's not until you actually get an opportunity or a moment to shine in terms of a good reverse grid or a good qualifying or a good one of these that you can all of a sudden be at the front and you go, oh no, no, no. I'm I remember what to do. I can I remember how to do this, I remember how to race, I remember how to lead a race, I remember how to do a safety car restart because it had a year and a half, nearly two years, of just not doing it. Um, so that uh race with Jason was really, really important just to give you that little bit of a kick of, I remember what to do, actually. I remember how to be at the front of a of a pack. I remember how to have a battle, I remember how to do all those sort of things. And case in point, I think next round, I was straight back on the podium again. That then becomes the thing you think about over winter, and the 2016 season comes, and you're a completely different driver, a completely different human altogether. You're going into that thinking, I can be at the front, there's no reason why I can't. And that 2016 season, we went straight in, qualified poll, won the first round of the season, and it was since then it's kind of got better and better. But a lot of it is all the mental side of it, a lot of it is all the sort of the self-confidence side that I've found over the years.

SPEAKER_05 23:32

And similar with you, Ash? Or I mean, I know the confidence was already there. Um you've obviously had Jason at at mid-stage of and then you before that the MG with Josh. Did you feel ultra-was this as well?

unknown 23:48

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

I do know I've got complete control on that as well, have you?

SPEAKER_05 23:55

Sutton was told me to adjudicate 2015. No, no. You started in 16. 16, mate. 16 now, isn't it? Sorry, mate. Yeah, I'm really sorry. We love you all, but Mikey Dove will itch in today that then I can tell. Can I just say I I genuinely love this championship, but I do think sometimes when you work in it and you're so close to it, it's like when someone asks me the next race date. I don't know the next race date because I know I'm going. So I'm like, No, I know that, mate. Yeah, that's that's right.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

We feel for you.

SPEAKER_05 24:26

Ashley. Yes. Um, your amazing first season, which I remember extremely well. Um, did you feel comfortable? Were you watching? Do you did you feel comfortable almost immediately, or did did it take time for yourself?

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Uh I think there was an element of I kept getting the question asked of what's it feel like racing against the guys that you've looked up to, your Matt Nil, Jason's, etc. And my I can remember kit I kept saying to myself, they're just names on windows. That was all I kept saying to myself, because they're just human beings. But you needed to earn your stripes, and I was definitely on sometimes on the right end of that, sometimes on the wrong end of that. And I spent a lot of time visiting Ian Watson up in the bus for sure, finding the do's and don'ts of what you can get away with, what's allowed, what's not. The style of racing is very different to what we've ever or I've ever come from, despite coming from Cleo's, which is still door-to-door action. It was so different stepping up into this. Um, but I was maybe a little bit different to what Tom was touching on. I'm sat alongside Josh, he'd just done his rookie year in 2015, so he'd almost gone through the cycle that I'm about to start. So he very much was a good guidance for that. We've become sort of great friends off on and off track from that. Um but yeah, it was a real learning curve year for me. So we had some real hires, we had a fantastic media day just on the initial time um initial launch. We had a great few rounds, we've had a we had a couple of wins, or a win and a poll. So you look back at the year and you go, Yeah, we've ticked a lot of the boxes that we wanted to do, but there was definitely more lows than there was highs because I was learning. There's a there's a huge element, and uh we we touch on it as drivers, but coming in, you sit on you sort of build your own sort of assumption of what it's going to be like, and it is nothing like that. If anything, it's ten times worse, but in a good way, like the the racing side of things is so so intense. And you heard Tom touch on the free race today, that absolutely destroys you, especially when you're not used to that, and you're doing sometimes even just one support race on a from a s on a Sunday to go in to do three, you've got all the fan interactions, there's so much. You've got debriefs from from the engineers side, there's a lot that you have to suddenly adapt to, take on board, and your process is almost burnt out come midday, and you still got to keep going. So I can remember there was a couple of times on a on a Monday where I was dead to the world. It was literally, it took me half a day just to recover. It takes me a day now, but um it's uh it's definitely uh a process, and for sure, you you go through that process, the highs and lows, the results, the DNFs, maybe the odd punch. I there's so much you need to learn and manage. You then sit on that over a winter and you can learn so much from that, and you can come bouncing back just as strong, if not stronger, um, from what you experienced in your support days, shall we say? Um, so yeah, I come back as a completely new driver, and over the years I would say I am a different driver to who I was in 2016, no doubt about that. Um I've had to adapt and form myself, mould myself into this championship to to go and get the results I want. Work with the car crews, that's another big factor that we don't really touch on. Building that car crew around you is so critical. And I've took the same car crew with me now through three different teams, three different cars, front-wheel drive, rear wheel drive, and we've succeeded through all of that, and every part of that. So there's lots of bits you need to get right, the stars need to align, and then you've got to make the most of that opportunity because you don't know when it's next gonna come.

SPEAKER_05 27:54

And Tom touched on it a little bit there. And a lot of sports people have said this. Do you actually like the defeats feel much greater in their feeling than a victory, if you know what I mean? You you almost look back at the disappointment days more so than the good ones. Is that is that a true thing that you do sometimes to sort of beat yourself up? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

Yeah, you need the good days to pick you back up for sure, to prove to yourself and everyone around you uh that you can still do it. Um, but the the bad days, shall we say, they're they're the ones that where you're really learning. They're the ones how you that make you stronger, you come back in a much different mindset. So the bad days are there's more bad days than there are good. Um, and for sure the bad days are the ones that you need to capitalise on.

SPEAKER_05 28:41

Good stuff, right? Let's go back to the start of the season. We've talked about Mikey when in the first race, but I'm gonna go back to the day before. We've spoken to all of the uh um drivers so far that we've had on the podcast about the qualifying race. The first the first podcast we did was pre-season. We were wondering what it was gonna be like. Is it gonna be a procession? Are people gonna risk um places for the odd point? Uh you two decided to um quell any of those rumours within like the um slap of the um qualifying race. I know that's obviously not part of the plan. I'm sure you were going in there for a nice, quiet, peaceful um contest, but did you know all of you deep down that it was gonna just be another flat out BTCC race for Tom? What did you go in with just out of the first?

SPEAKER_01 29:26

I think there'll always be an element of uh you you make a competition out of it and everyone wants to win, irrelevant to whether it's an egg and spoon race, uh, you know, who's gonna press the button first at the elevator, who's gonna eat their dinner first. I think if you put any competitive people in a um in an environment where there's a uh a victory or a second place, they'll you know we'll all we'll all kind of go for it. I think there's an element of irrelevant to whether it's one grain of sand or a million pounds, I think we would all want to win because I think that's just generally in our nature of uh of sports people.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

Yeah, and I think there was this talk of it being still qualifying. It wasn't. You put us on the grid with a set of starting lights, the engine noise, it's not qualifying. Mindset change. So there's a big factor of that. And I can remember sat uh whatever acceleration was three o'clock. I can remember sat saying it's a fantastic idea prior to that. But come the end of it when we were obviously uh in the in the gravel, it it didn't change my mindset on the whole format. I I still love the format, but yeah, I was uh caught on the on the downside of it and the wrong side of it, and that was the first time out of twice already this year that I've been on the wrong side of it. So it's uh it has a huge impact to race day, but it's definitely a competitive element of it, and that will never go. I think if anything, that's only gonna add more fire, uh wood to the fire over the year goes uh goes on.

SPEAKER_05 30:49

But you proved the uh on race day. I kind of I guess you have those two different ways to attack a race day. Naturally, you're all trying to be up the front, and ordinarily you're trying to go for a textbook, race one, win, race two, win if you can, and then see what happens in race three. But you had to do the Sunday round the uh completely different way, which happens, but you you can also make that work in this championship, can't you?

SPEAKER_03 31:13

Yeah, and I think you can make it more happen more so now than what let's say in 2016-2017, when we have 32 cars on the grid. It was a tough gig to do that. Still possible. Uh I mean we we've had a couple of good goes, and I know Tom has as well when the numbers have been 28 or around that around that area, but um yeah, I mean we're touching on a bad luck bit. We have had some bad luck, but they have just come on a Saturday, so we've been able to sort of bounce back from that, and we've had to do that twice. Look at obviously Donington the opening round, Snet, we had the the drama there, so yeah, twice we've had to bounce back. Donington was phenomenal for me to do that. Obviously, we we gained the benefit of a few penalties at the very end, but to finish on the podium um from the back of the grid was was mega, and it just again the bounce back sets your day up nice for the for the race two and through.

SPEAKER_05 32:02

And Tom, you've had a load of comeback drives, uh many over the years. Is it when something's happened to you that's either bad in qualifying or previous race, are you just completely fired up in a kind of not angry way, but are you able to enjoy those comeback drives as they're happening or are you just kind of I I quite enjoy them, if I'm honest.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

I quite enjoy that um that element of uh kind of pressures off to a certain degree, where you go, I just need to try and get something out of this. You just need to try and recover a race at some point, whatever it might be. Now, I think there's uh oh my god, Tom Chiltern is running around the track. Must be a fan with his t-shirt on. No, that isn't Tom, that is actually Tom Chiltern running the track. That's got to be more entertaining for the run-looking arstery. Oh my god. Um, what are we talking about? Oh yeah. Recovery drives. Um uh yeah, I think there's always an element of of um being fired up for them. It helps when you know um, and again, for Ash and I, we've both been in the same same situation now for the for the last few years, that we've both gone into race weekends, be it race one or be it qualifying, on the limited amount of of boost, limited amount of hybrid, or whatever else it might have been from from there. That actually when your mentality shifts from I've only got one second, or I've only got three seconds, or I've only got this, or I've only got that, to suddenly going, well, I'm starting last, but I've got a soft tire and I've got 20 seconds a lap for 12 laps. Actually, your mentality goes to, oh, this is going to be fun. This is gonna be good. Because it feels like you've been given, you've been given an advantage almost from when you get so used to having it without that when you do get it, it goes, Oh, this feels this feels really, really good.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

It might, it must be quite nice as well, though, when the bottom 15 pretty much put their indicator on and move out the way and sort of let you crack on with your race. That just takes 10 years in the championship, that Mikey, you'll get there. See Tom Ingram with his headlights ablaze. Is that really him? There is an element. Oh, and there he's there, he's gone. No.

SPEAKER_05 34:06

Yeah, no, there is an element of that, I guess, and it's not quite indicated, although we did have that one season. Who was that, Andrew Jordan? Andrew Jordan, I don't know. You remember that?

SPEAKER_04 34:13

Obviously he remembers that year, don't you? You won't forget that. I'll never forget that was that classic year of 20 uh the old 2015.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

That was the Golden Shed and Drive. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:27

Um but that's we approved, did we pass the test? Was that yeah?

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Well, you mean race three at Brand Satch GP for the win? 2015.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Yeah, see we were we just had to check with the Oracle first.

SPEAKER_05 34:38

But there is an element of uh of a sports person that you earn those stripes, don't you? I don't think it's people necessarily indicating, but I guess you've got people that they know Ash is coming through, they know you're coming through. It would only potentially hold their race up if they were to fight for two nights.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

I I we you've got to think we've been in that scenario. I can remember whether it's 2016, 17, whatever, I've sat on the sat on the grid and gone, oh, so and so is behind me. They've they've been phenomenal, they're there for bad luck, we're having a bad time. You don't fight them because all I'm gonna do is pause my own progress. So I've I can remember there has been scenarios where I have not waived a driver through or indicated or anything like that, but you don't make it hard. If they put a nose up the inside, you don't overdefend, you don't do anything silly, you let them go, and you because at the end of the day, you might cost yourself a couple of attempts, not a second battling with them. So you look at it in in that respect, it's about your own progress, and that I've been there and I've done it myself.

SPEAKER_05 35:32

Okay, so let's just close up looking at the end of the rest of the season, not the end, because we've got six events still to go.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

It does feel weird that we've had a summer break and we've still got six races to go.

SPEAKER_05 35:41

Yeah, I don't like the fact we keep calling it halfway. Like it's been a real difficult one in the office to be like mid-season break and it isn't mid-season.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

No, it's not, is it?

SPEAKER_05 35:49

Um, but it did allow us all to uh watch the World Cup, so that was you did a good job of that, didn't you? I did a very good job of that. It worked out beautifully. So thank you, everyone. Um, Mikey, well let's start with you. Plans for the and targets really for the rest of the season. You've talked I've spoken to you earlier in the season as well. You've mentioned top three as being a real big point for you in that in the overall championship.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Is that a target? I think I mean I came into the year saying I wanted to be a multiple race winner this year and to be at worst top six of the overall championship. So I think we're sort of on course to do that. I do think like as a as a goal, like third in the championship would kind of be like almost like a championship win to me. I don't think that I'm gonna be catching either of these two for the rest of the this season. So, you know, you've you've still got some obviously really fast people that are up uh just snapping at their heels, like Dan Cam and the two BMWs have been quick, but I think with the points gap and where we sit at the moment, if we really turn it on the second half of the season, then P3 is probably still within our grasp. But I've I'd consider a top six in the overall championship to be a really, really solid year. Um, multiple race winners, so if we could just get another race win between now and the end of the season, that'd be great. Um, and independence as well. Like hopefully that would come as a byproduct of being top five, top six in the overall championship. Um, but even that this year is looking more competitive than ever, with BMW stepping down to independence and the the two blue Toyotas as well, are now independent.

SPEAKER_05 37:25

So it is actually definitely one of the most challenging independent seasons, there's no doubt about that. So it will um there'll be a lot of kudos to whoever wins that title. Tom, uh you're out here still absolutely trying to retain that title, but do you feel I don't know, are you is it just flat out for the rest of the season? Do you feel pressure off or is it is it still no very much?

SPEAKER_01 37:45

No, it's absolutely it's not pressure off in the slightest. Um there's still a lot of pressure on because we've got to make sure that we're fast every weekend because we obviously know Ash will be fast and Napa will be fast, but you've only then got to look at at exactly like Mikey's picked up on there. Um the work that all the teams are doing in the off season in the in the sort of the offseason to get ready for the start of the season, that sets your development path. You've had these first handful of races, everyone's had a chance to reset, they'll come back stronger for the second half of the year. So there's there's never an element of oh, pressure's off, I've just got to stay there with a matchup. Absolutely not. We've got to make sure that whilst we're uh beating Ash, um, we're beating everyone else as well. It's not just an element of, you know, Ash isn't the only, uh isn't the only fast fast driver on the grid. There's there's lots of fast drivers, there's lots of quick teams, um, that we've got to make sure we're we're on our A game every single, every single weekend. And uh a lot of that will come with challenges. There'll be some there'll be some um there'll be some dodgy weather calls along the way, I'm certain of it. There'll be some uh bad reverse grids, there'll be some good reverse grids, there'll be a tire choice that we've got to have at some point. That there's a lot that can go wrong. There's a lot that can go right, and there's a lot that can go wrong. So we've just got to make sure we're as fast as we can be.

SPEAKER_05 38:56

And a good manufacturer's team scrap as well, largely with you guys. But um, does that get spoken about internally with with you guys as teams? We don't care about that, it's just the drivers in it. That's the we do.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Well, I know you do to towards the end of the season, I'm sure there comes a moment where it always gets spoken about, as joking aside. It's always one of those ones that naturally you want to do as a team, you want to do the whole the whole shebang. Obviously, you don't you want you want the whole lot.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

Uh I think it the key thing there is it becomes a byproduct like Mikey's touched on. That if we're doing a job we need to do for the drivers, the manufacturers and teams come as a byproduct of that. So obviously it is a joint effort. So if both drivers are doing the best they can for their own campaign, then for sure the the other two will follow in suit.

SPEAKER_05 39:42

And just to finish off, we're gonna heap the pressure on you because the pressure is on you. Love pressure, keep it coming. Oh god, yeah, pressure is a privilege. That is very true. It has been a dream first. You got the only kitchen wall. What what what was the saying? I'm already in the kitchen. So what was the saying? What did he say? Huh? What did he say? What did he say for me?

SPEAKER_04 40:05

We weren't listening again. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 40:07

Go on, Mike, everyone. Come on, repeat yourself again. I said that pressure is a privilege.

SPEAKER_05 40:12

It is, ladies and gentlemen. It is a privilege. That is absolutely true. Um, and I do know you enjoy it, but this has been it's not the first half of the season, it's the first four events of the season, but a pretty dreamy start so far. Um you can't ask for the same again, I I guess. I know you're gonna strive towards it, but are you feeling that pressure now heading towards a potential fifth title?

SPEAKER_03 40:38

Uh no, no, I'm not. It's still early doors. A lot can happen. We've touched on the pros and cons of every scenario that can go on out there. So we've just got to keep doing what we've been doing. We've not been applying pressure to ourselves uh as far. So we've just got to keep the the luck on our side, I think, is a key element here. I've I've had a couple of bad qualifying races, but we've managed to bounce back. It's when you have a bad race on race day. So yeah, we need to keep a powder dry to some extent, but mentality hasn't really changed. It's uh full steam ahead. We're still trying to push the car on in in that same direction. No one stands still over winter, everyone's gonna move closer. So we we were out testing it the the whole team, the atmosphere, everyone has got the same mentality to to keep going forward with it.

SPEAKER_05 41:25

Right, gents. Thanks. We're gonna end as we always do with some quick fire questions. Tom Ingram. Simon Mellowish. What is your most useless talent?

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Um god cracking. It was fairly personal. It's none of your business.

SPEAKER_05 41:45

No, that's correct. Good answer.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Um my most useless talent is I could I could always used to do. Do you remember the X Factor Man was a thing? Do you remember him? When we used to do the the the announcement. I can do I can do a good X Factor voiceover impression. I can see that. All right, well you now get it. Rachel Adoditi! That guy. Yeah, that's useless.

SPEAKER_04 42:05

Completely point is a really useless talent. Uh for a programme that's finished as well.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

That's what I mean. I love it. I love it. At the time it was really funny because you'd hear him on Saturday night and now he's not been a thing for like ten years. A bit wasted on me, but I quite enjoyed it. Just like that.

SPEAKER_05 42:20

Yeah, good. I don't even think it's useless anymore. No, pointless. Yeah, maybe. Um, Mikey, what is your go-to excuse when you are late? Uh you don't strike are you a late person? I feel like you might be quite good.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

Depends what it's for, to be honest. I can be. I mean, everyone's got a bit of a lazy side to them, haven't they?

SPEAKER_05 42:40

Like it's too serious, it's aren't um it's quick fire.

SPEAKER_04 42:46

I'd like to say there's an element of quick fire.

SPEAKER_05 42:48

If if if Adam Weaver calls a meeting for 11 o'clock tomorrow morning, and you get there at five past eleven because you couldn't be asked to do it. I'm just being lazy. I was finishing my breakfast. I was going up the seconds.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

Okay, I love it. Um What about if it was at lunchtime though?

SPEAKER_05 43:07

Still finishes breakfast, it takes that long. Ashley, one of the things people would be surprised to learn about you. I like cooking. Really?

SPEAKER_03 43:19

Yeah, I'll do all the cooking at home.

SPEAKER_05 43:21

Is there a uh what's your your go-to dish?

SPEAKER_03 43:24

Oh, that's a good question. Uh, I do like a Thai green curry. Like chicken or prawns.

SPEAKER_05 43:31

Your choice is yours. Very good. That is absolutely fantastic. Tom, if you weren't in motorsport, where would you be?

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Um, where would I be? Quick question. Oh, no, I would be on the beach, yeah. Uh where would I be? I uh probably something in design, you know. I like I like the I quite enjoyed the like the livery design stuff, the helmet design stuff, all that sort of fun stuff. So something in design, maybe. I like that.

SPEAKER_05 44:00

Um, Mikey, who has the best race face on the grid? Who's got the meanest race face? I mean, you've all got helmets on right before a racist first.

SPEAKER_03 44:11

Do we get a chance to walk up and down a grid to inspect said race face?

SPEAKER_05 44:14

Actually, yeah, it's a good point because you're the only people that don't really see the other person's race face, do you?

SPEAKER_03 44:20

But you can make it up, make it up, go with it.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Funny, funny story. Uh uh when I was racing Janetta's, uh, Patrick Watts came and raced in G55s and he wore an open face helmet. I mean, I looked in the mirror, I just saw his his face, and it's really funny. Please don't do that because I'm not sure. Any mention of Patrick Watts is great.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

I'm gonna go with Ricky Collard. Yeah. Because I feel like if I see him in my mirror and he smiles, it'll probably blind me.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

Oh, that's that's fair.

SPEAKER_05 44:47

That is fair. It's fair, yeah. Who is the biggest wind-up merchant in the paddock? Uh I wonder where you go.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

Um wind-up merchant's got to be Aiden Moffitt, hasn't it? I mean, there's no doubt about it.

SPEAKER_05 45:00

We always say Aiden, though.

SPEAKER_03 45:02

I mean, it's because it is, isn't it? He is funny or Josh. He's annoyingly funny, Aiden. Yeah, it's Aiden. I've got a quick fire for Tom. Oh, oh, this is good. How many times are you gonna cut the final chicane this weekend? Oh depends if you fire me off, mate. Depends if you turn me off, mate.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

What you mean like hundred yards before the corner? Yeah, sorry about that.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

You've got to have momentum through, though, haven't you?

SPEAKER_05 45:24

Uh Tom, if BTCC added one completely ridiculous rule, what should it be?

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Oh well, I mean, there's quite a few of them already. Um I would say that if you win the next race, you have to start from last. Love that.

unknown 45:42

Oof.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Well, like a full reverse, yeah, full reverse race.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

No, no, no. Not the second, then if you if the the the top three podium. Yep. You get a podium, just that top three, then go to the back for the next race.

SPEAKER_03 45:57

Full fears.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

I personally don't think there should be a T T B penalty for race three. I I would see if I had control over making a rule change, I would take away the T T B deficit on the race two winners because I feel like it's a double RAM. You do a reverse grid and then they haven't got the performance to then come through and put on a show. So I think the penalty should be maybe a top 15 reverse grid, so like make the reverse grid bigger and then allow these guys, because it would usually be them going backwards, to actually have the full boost allocation to then put on a bit of a race and actually come through, because otherwise it becomes a bit of a procession where you're just sat behind people that have got more TTB and you just sit there. Should we start a petition on that? I mean it's fair, my friend.

SPEAKER_05 46:41

Back to again it's quickfire questions. Two, I didn't ask you to slug off the current rules.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

So I didn't realise we're not allowed an opinion.

SPEAKER_05 46:51

I'm joking, I'm joking. Um what about could we have could we have race one be in the reverse grid? And then you No. Okay, cool. Um that was a quick answer. Yeah, quick fire. Uh last two, not that interesting. Don't do them then. Favourite surfing in the UK, Mikey Doble. Uh we're right here, Fruxton. Really? Outright ballsiness of the track, flat out speed, or what is it about it?

SPEAKER_02 47:25

I've just always had quite a good car here. I like the fact it suits my style. You've got to be quite smooth out on the fast stuff. I think the complexes are quite satisfying to get right when you can really use the curb to your advantage to hook the car through. But I would not want to be driving here if I if I didn't have a good car underneath me.

SPEAKER_05 47:43

Final one, Ash. Uh, if the BTCC was to race at any other circuit, somewhere realistic where touring cars would excel around the world, where would you take the BTCC? If we could have a flyer, one flyaway race. Imola.

SPEAKER_03 47:57

Oh Imola. Lots of curb hopping. That's thinking the first sector at Imla. All the chicanes into the hairpin. Imla, I'm going with Imla. Is that a guy naked up there?

SPEAKER_01 48:09

Uh yeah, he's got a mic and a level tattoo as well.

SPEAKER_05 48:15

Well, I think that's a great time to end the uh podcast. I don't think there is a nation. Imola's a great shout. See, I'm going with that. Imla Roll School is great shout. I do. Imla is a unbelievable out. I still like that.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

Yeah. Where would you go? Tom? Quick fire, where would you go? Uh Anglesey. Anglesey, yeah, yeah. If you catch on a good day. Uh Marky. Um Zambo. That's Zambo.

SPEAKER_05 48:45

That's unbelievable. That's a shame. That feels already touring carb.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

I'm gonna just stick with it. Rockingham. Just bring back Rockingham.

SPEAKER_03 48:51

Yeah, agreed. It's a shame, isn't it? It is a shame. It's still there. Did you erase it Rockingham? No. No. Rockingham is awesome.

SPEAKER_05 48:58

It is such a shame, and it is still there, isn't it? Yeah. Nothing really ever happened. Bring back Rockingham.

SPEAKER_04 49:03

Petitioned.

SPEAKER_05 49:04

There you go. What a way to end the podcast by saying bring back Rockingham up. I wasn't expecting that. But um thank you all for watching and thanks, gents, for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

Subscribe, comment, follow the Tingram YouTube channel. And after you've done that, go and do the Turing car one as well. You know it makes sense.